Network-Based Mobility Extensions (netext) WG Minutes IETF 76 WEDNESDAY, November 11, 2009, 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I Chairs: Basavaraj Patil (basavaraj.patil@nokia.com) Rajeev Koodli (rkoodli@starentnetworks.com) Credit for these minutes to: Antti Makela(antti dot makela at tkk dot fi> -------------------------------------------------- 1. Agenda bashing, Blueseheets, Note takers, Jabber scribes 5 Mins Change in agenda: Flow Mobility and Inter-technology handovers moved to start due to conflicting schedule. 2. PMIP6 extensions for inter-access, presenters Rajeev Koodli and Jari Arkko http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-12.ppt and http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-6.pdf Discussion on choices at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netext/current/msg00881.html and slide 2 of JA's presentation JA: Recharter or new WG (Netext2?) Jonne Soininen/NSN: Everything is true, but Solution #1 is not needed since IP does not notice anything, constrant to 2G/3G handover in 3GPP JA: With different technologies where MTU changes IP level needs to be aware JS: Virtual links depend on operating systems, different on Symbian and FreeBSD JA: We shouldn't provide implementation advice, only conceptual JS: Can it be done in high-level fashion? Sri: We don't have triggering capability from UE -> MAG. How about moving only partial set of flows to a new interface? What is the evolution path? JA: Is triggering at L2 or L3? Discussion so far indicated that we don't want L3 solution, possible PMIP extensions would transfer triggers around the nextwork but they'd still be L2 triggers. With L3 triggers you can't have inter-access handovers and PMIP. Sri: Can build everything on the network site, if triggering is out-of-band? RK: Regardless of choice with MAG interface signaling needed between LMA <-> MAG to allow for subset of flows being transferred Juan-Carlos Zunlga: MAG <-> MN, Solution recommendations should be very specific Carlos J. Bernardos: I support writing BCP document Marcello: I think conclusions accurate. Vote: Reasonable way forward, yes/no: ~ 17 yes, none no. JA: Expecting text on the discussion as a basis for a minor recharter Sri: Can triggers come from link-layer and PMIP support it on network side? JA: Should be ok Marcelo: There is no standard-track document on this. 3. Runtime LMA Assignment Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6, Jouni Korhonen http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-8.ppt I-D: draft-ietf-netext-redirect-00 About 5 people have read draft No comments forthcoming RK: What is the motivation for mid-session LMA assignment? JK: Currently assignment only applies to initial assignment, input needed for motivation - do people find this useful? Applies to handover cases where you might cross a boundary where administrator has decided to switch LMAs. Lots of assumptions in such cases (sharing of mobility sessions etc) RK: If session is anchored at specific LMA, is there session continuity. JK: Have you read draft? RK: No JK: Open question at the moment, there is introduction to a discussion in the draft RK: I don't think this should be done at all. Why both soft and hard support needed? Simpler approach needed, now three-level complexity. JK: So, take handover exchange away, only apply assignment on initial PBU/PBA? RK: Yes Hidetoshi Yokota: Mid-session redirection, where LMA sends back different LMA, session would break. BP: When you a redirected to new MAG, the session should go to the anchored LMA HY: It's just an example BP: Bad example. Kent Leung: Why are we doing LMA reassignment during handover? I don't see justification. Question: What is the option in PBU? JK: If we apply only in initial, we don't use option. Draft doesn't comment on options yet. 4. Bulk Re-registration for Proxy Mobile IPv6, Basavaraj Patil http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-1.pdf I-D: draft-premec-netlmm-bulk-re-registration-03 Marcos: Is this same as group ID? BP: Not to my understanding Marcos: I propose merging group ID with Charlie's draft RK: Charlie's draft tries to combine multiple ID's concerining single node Marcos: So, there's a connection, in this case we are just doing it for multiple nodes. Better to have all in single draft. BP: Charlie not here, but we can have different sets of IDs depending on policy. We can continue this on list. Qin Wu: How do you define flag B, it has two purposes, what if both purposes happen at same time. BP: We'll provide a clarification in future revision. Localized routing - PS and solutions discussion 5. PMIPv6 Localized Routing Problem Statement http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-2.ppt draft-ietf-netext-pmip6-lr-ps-01.txt BJ: Few people have read the document, please send comments, also on the roaming model. Glen Zoren(?): I was under impression that PMIP domain was set of nodes which could set up SA's between each other - so you can have dynamic domains. Carlos: That's not incorrect as such, but can't make that assumption. GZ: I didn't mean all PMIP entities in the world. 6. draft-oulai-netext-opt-local-routing-01.txt, Suresh Krishnan http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-9.ppt > Kent Leung: Is the scope limited to some cases only SK: Yes. BP: What do you mean by optimized handover? SK: Not easy problem but if there's RO between MAGs and MN switches MAGs, we can use that KL: Is it possible to map the problem spaces of different solutions to different drafts for comparison? BP: Yes, at least we can talk now about them allow Marcos: What does it mean "inter-MAG tunnel may be preconfigured" SK: If some MAGs are close to one another, who can expect handovers between them, they can prepare for RO 7. draft-koodli-netext-local-forwarding, Rajeev Koodli http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-11.ppt ?: What triggers the transaction? RK: Trigger is still open. [Several people did not state names] ?2: Two LMA's are not talking to each other, how's the authentication? RK: If the LMAs trust each other, even if not talking, authentication is ok. Trust doesn't mean you have to talk. You don't want LMA <-> LMA signaling. What's is defined is MAG <-> MAG, with some LMA interaction. What's happening is dynamic delegation with fine granularity. BP: Cutting off discussion 8. draft-wu-netext-local-ro Qin Wu http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-3.ppt Mohana Jeyatharan: LMA needs to know where prefix is from QW: Ok, we'll address this in next revision 9. draft-loureiro-netext-pmipv6-ro-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/slides/netext-4.ppt BP: That concludes discussion on localized routing 10. New Proposals: Multihoming extensions for Proxy Mobile IPv6 Carlos J. Bernardos I-D: draft-bernardos-mif-pmip-01.txt 5 mins Hui Deng: Clarifications on weak/strong host models? BP: Let's take this on mailing list Service Flow Identifier in Proxy Mobile IPv6 Hui Deng - draft-hui-netext-service-flow-identifier-01.txt 5 Mins HD: WG draft? BP: We need to do the rechartering process, then we can consider taking this on. Bulk PBU using Bitmaps Mohana J. - draft-jeyatharan-netext-pmip-bulkpbu-bitmap-00 5 Mins MJ: Comments on the way forward? BP: We have adopted group ID approaches as WG items, for these we need to do more discussions on mailing lists. Virtual interface for supporting multihoming and inter technology handover Tranh M. Trung - draft-trung-netext-virtual-interface-01 5 Mins Sri: Can you statement the differences between this and other related document(s)? TMT: I try to limit the modifications to mobile node. Sri: If it's a simple change, does this require a new document? Better work with existing ones BP: Moving on ITHO support in MN for PMIP6 Hidetoshi Y./Sri G. draft-yokota-netlmm-pmipv6-mn-itho-support-02.txt Reflector Extension for Route Optimization Agent Xiansong Cui draft-cui-netext-route-optimization-agent-ext-01.txt 5 Mins CJB: Why LMA, not MAG doing this? Some work done for RO in Nemo, please take a look BP: Need to shut down and conclude BP: Meeting adjourned, rest of the presentations not given due to lack of time. Differentiated Services Support for Proxy Mobile IPv6 Behcet S./Frank Xia - draft-xia-netext-qos-00.txt Gateway Initiated Dual-Stack Lite Deployment Sri G. draft-gundavelli-softwire-gateway-init-ds-lite-00 PMIPv6 and Network Mobility Problem Statement Carlos CJ. draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-nemo-ps-00