list.NFS Version 4 Working Group
IETF 56 San Francisco minutes

Network File System Version 4 (nfsv4)
-------------------------------------

Chair(s):

    Robert Thurlow <Robert.Thurlow@eng.sun.com>
    Brian Pawlowski <beepy@netapp.com>

Document Editor:

    Spencer Shepler <shepler@eng.sun.com>


AGENDA:  Tuesday March 18 0900-1130 (2.5 hours)

    Welcome and Introduction            (Pawlowski)        5 min
    Agenda bash etc.
        - BLUE SHEETS
        - NOTE WELL
        - Status of drafts

    Connectathon results and issues     (Shepler)         10 min

    Where's RFC3010bis?                 (Shepler)         5  min

    Minor revisions to NFSv4            (Thurlow)         20 min

    Recent drafts                       (Eisler)          40 min
        - XDR update: 
draft-ietf-nfsv4-rfc1832bis-00.txt
        - SECINFO changes: 
draft-eisler-nfsv4-secinfo-00.txt
        - Credential Cache GSS Mech: 
draft-eisler-nfsv4-ccm-00.txt

    Migration/replication status        (Thurlow)         10 min

    From Repl/Mig to a global namespace (Thurlow)         20 min

    NFS and RDMA/RDDP work              (Pawlowski)       10 min

    Review of work items                (Shepler/Pawlowski) 15 min
        - API GSSAPI advancement
        - MIB draft resurrection
        - RPC/XDR/RPCSEC_GSS RFC plans

    Open discussion                     (Pawlowski)       10 m

    Wrapup                              (Pawlowski)        5 m

MINUTES

beepy welcomed, blue sheets and noted well.

Agenda bashed mercilessly.

Spencer Shepler reported on RFC 3010 revision.  Waiting for 48 hour 
author review - RFC3010bis - in RFC editor's queue.

Connectathon 2003 - good results, had 5 implementations there, did some 
recovery testingand Kerberos testting/GSSAPI. We've hit stride with twice a 
year off cycle testing, June and October, for 
implementations.. Next testing is first week of June in Ann Arbor, MI; 
another bake-a-thon event October in Austin.

Rob Thurlow reported on minor revisioning.  Minor version is defined by the 
base specification.  What remains is policy for management of minor 
revisions from a working group perspective.  Rob defined minor 
revisions bounding (new minor version does not eliminate previous 
version support, client server will negotiate down version).  Can add new 
ops within COMPOUND, add mode bits, attributes.  But our policy in when to 
spin and why a new revision.  Rob discussed asynchronous feature driven 
minor versioning sort of vs.  a train model.  People are tending towards the 
"train model".  Rob slides mention all this.  This discussion will be 
pursued on the WG alias.  Train model procedure to be defined and vetted 
within context of IETF. sob entered with IETF feedback and move to reduce 
number of working groups in transport area.  NFS V4 has options on how to 
handle minor versions.  Brent Callaghan questioned a 1 year train model 
with length of IETF process - sob suggested the IETF process is fast 
enough for a well working working group.

Mike Eislers's drafts:

XDR - want to raise it to full standard, needed some work to come into line 
with current RFCs, mainly ISOC copyright and IANA 
considerations, trademark updates, etc.  Can find change bars on Mike's 
URL.  Comment from Scott - will we require some level of review before 
things get revised?  Mike will add text.

SECINFO changes - issues from alias.  1) Needs args analogous to LOOKUP, but 
can't access a parent directory like LOOKUPP - this will be 
SECINFO_NO_NAME, subargs "current" and "parent".  Need to provide a way to do 
this.  2) Need to be able to cross a boundary between security domains 3) 
Need to permit SECINFO to encode more flavors than a few explicitly 
listed.  Question: do we want a style more analogous to 
LOOKUP/LOOKUPP and use SECINFOP and SECINFOC instead?  No, probably 
better this way for minor rev.  Question: can we not do domain 
crossing?  Can, but it's not fully specified; this will clarify.  
Question: why do we not just apply this work to currfh?  A: want to limit 
the ops which have to handle NFS4ERR_WRONGSEC.

(Eisler had paused during his security presentation and resumed when David 
Black returned to get some feedback.)

CCM - waited for David Black.  Want to be able to use a cheaper 
security mechanism when we're using IPSec/TLS/SSH underneath.  Want to 
authenticate heavily just once, bind to the secure transport, and cache the 
creds.  -00 draft obsolete - it was proposed that we change to a simpler 
wrapper mechanism, and that was accepted.  Issues: MUST specify channel 
bindings for end-to-end security?  Without, can have 
man-in-the-middle attacks before client and server 
authentication, in theory.  Problem: no channel bindings are defined in 
deployed secure  transports.  Proposal: SHOULD rather than MUST for 
channel bindings, SHOULD let users set policy to require it, and CCM 
should negotiate it.  David Black - agrees that channel bindings are not a 
MUST. TLS, FCIP both deal with a nonce handshake to do simpler binding to 
transport.  FCIP needs it because it does not try to do 
authentication in-band.  Mike: promote this as a WG item.  David: 
strongly agree, because we need this badly for RDDP.

David Black and Eisler discussed fine points.  David said that one thing on 
alias was not covered: what about another issue of reuse of cached  
credentials reused over another TCP connection - a crucial difference 
between iSCSI use and proposed CCM work.  David said iSCSI binds the 
credentials to a TCP connection maintaining the IPsec context 
(disallowing migration).  Eisler agrees.  Julian Satran jumped in a bit - a 
nonce, Eisler to follow up with Julian.  David suggests FCIP plays this 
sort of game.  Mike to follow up.  Eisler feels other than issues WG feels it 
is worthwhile pursuing.  David strongly seconds that.  In context of RDDP 
tie in.

Rob Thurlow summarized migration/replication.  Discussed state of 
current draft.  Trying to come up with a protocol good enoughbut not to 
complex.  Related to replication/migration is thinking ona global name  
space.  The AFS attack.  See Rob's slides.  AFS users seeking one global 
name space and delegated management for local control of portions of the 
name space.  Automounter has proven an inadequate solution (not 
generally applicable).  Rob listed the limitations of Automounter.  
Current V4 protocol does not provide mechanism for enumerating the 
replicas of a given file system.  Only provides list of 
possibilities.  (which is not the same thing).  beepy vectored into a 
little history as to why we avoided swallowing the AFS whale at the start of 
the NFS Version 4 work.  AFS solved the heterogeneous distributed file 
system problem by dictating a single solution that made everything look the 
same.  Treading carefully in this space.  Rob Thurlow to carefully 
investigate delivery date of Informational RFC describing Sun use of LDAP 
for naming (Automounter).

RDDP work items (beepy) - RDDP or RDMA promotes direct data placement by a 
smart NIC directly into application buffers.  Our charter now includes us 
producing a problem statement and a requirements document for NFS and 
related technologies' use of RDDP and RDMA.  Main reason to stop there is 
because there is not yet an RDDP protocol, and we don't want to wag the 
dog.  After AD review, we will hope to consider making changes to NFS or RPC 
or both to make use of the protocol.  Next action: form a subgroup to 
whack this together.

Beepy - other documents.  To take NFSv4 to Draft, we need to move a bunch of 
normative references ahead, either ourselves or in cooperation with other 
groups.  GSS-API C and Java bindings are being worked now, need to 
conference with Scott Bradner.  Need to get re-engaged with MIBs and other

Other issues:

>From Mike Eisler - RPC program # registration - retrieved document from 
IANA - but no progress.  Rob needs to follow up.

David Black and Mike Eisler thanked Sun for sponsoring the IETF.

Shepler proposes high bandwidth one day meeting in June in connection with 
testing event at UMich.  beepy RTFM the IESG web page.

The group ended with a big thank you to our outgoing Area Director Scott 
Bradner for his guidance and support throughout the development of the V4 
protocol.